Tuesday, February 3, 2009

GC: Starfall to be Buffed Soon (tm)

With the recent nerf's to Starfall there has been a lot of discussion on the WoW Forums about the purpose of Starfall. Now that it doesn't stun or de-stealth people PvPers don't like it, and the damage scales so poorly that most PvEers don't really care if they have it. Well, the discussion has prompted Ghost Crawler to chime in with these two posts (one, two).

The purpose of Starfall is to do extra damage. What I mean by that is that the spell is not channeled so you can use it along with a Hurricane or whatever other spell you want to cast. It was never intended to be a de-stealther and we've become unenamored with random stun chances added to other spells.

One criticism which we think is totally valid is the paltry coefficient on Starfall. We will be hotfixing in a more reasonable number soon (tm).

As I said, Starfall is a damage spell. While it does AE damage, that does not mean it is ineffective against single targets. If you cast it and keep using Starfire / Wrath etc. on bosses then your dps will be higher than if you did not cast it. I realize its large area can bring in extra groups, but this is rarely a problem on actual bosses.

The PvP utility spell, as Lissanna (I think) pointed out, is Typhoon. If your primary concern is
Arenas, you might want to direct your feedback toward Typhoon rather than trying to turn Starfall into a different spell.

My Thoughts:

1. It's great to hear that they are going to buff the Spell Power coefficient on Starfall. I just hope they bump it up enough. The current coefficient is so low that we can take off all of our gear and Starfall's damage wouldn't drop much. For a 51 point talent and a spell with a 3 minute cooldown that sucks.

However, I don't think that the spell in it's current form is a complete waste as some have indicated on the forums. Even on a single target it has a very high DPCT (damage per cast time), and if used correctly that can increase dramatically. Its like Force of Nature. It just has to be used properly to get the most out of it.

2. I could easily be completely wrong about this because I am not a PvPer, but I don't see why PvPkins are so harsh on this spell now. I understand that the stuns and de-stealthing was awesome. I would hate to lose them also, but it is still a decent damage spell that you don't have to target. Unless it is really easy to counter, I don't see why it is trashed so much.

3. I think all of us knew this already but it is nice to know that Typhoon is meant to be the spell with PvP utility. I am not saying that it doesn't have PvE uses, but I have never understood why some very smart moonkin insist that it is a good PvE spell.


Pucc said...

Both Starfall and Typhoon has its place in certain situations in PVE. Like you said you have to treat them like Treants and use them wisely to be the benefit. or it hurts you.

Its just becoming now to the point we are back to having to spend extra points in talents Moonkins deemed useless when 3.0 hit. Like Imp Faerie Fire and Eclipse (pre buff) So we have to be more selective in what we choose to use.

Jen said...

PVPkins are harsh on this because all it takes is a stun to knock you out from using the spell. I doesn't cancel Starfall, but it basically puts you in timeout where the stars aren't falling. I don't do very much pvp anymore, but I have done WG a few times and this has happened.

Eagerly looking forward to your next installment about Eclipse.

Anonymous said...

Before the nurf, SF was extremely effective in PVP and made boomkins a viable arena class. When those pesky rogues lock you up, hit trinket and SF, then BS, and as the rogue tries to lock you up for the remainder of the fight, they would be dead well before they could finish you off. I don't see a difference between all the stuns a rogue can produce, and the constant fears a Lock can throw, then you have the stupid ass pally bubble and mage ice block. I just didn't see the point of nurfing SF at all. It was a Boomkin equalizer in arena. Now we get owned and really are not a viable arena class again.

I say, put it back the way it was because it really wasn't all that OP in pvp. It just helped level a lopsided playing field for Boomers.

As far as PVE, get the SF glyph that increases SF damage by 20%. It decreases the aoe by 50% and makes it extremely effective for situational raid mobs and bosses. (I.e. all the stupid green blobs that come after you on the way to Patchwork) SF and Hurricane takes them out as they move through the door, and your DPS shoots up to over 10,000 - Hoot!


Sorcefire said...

I'm a PVE boomkin and got the DF glyph so that I could use it more often and not worry about pulling nearby groups or aerial units. It is my all out DPS enhancement for those DPS fights and helps with trash pulls in heroics.

Kagrra said...

While I'm Resto and can't speak from a Balance perspective I have to admit I love Starfall and Typhoon. I've noticed a trend with Northrend bosses. They spawn adds. Every time it happens I get tons of mobs running straight for me. Starfall and Typhoon take care of that nicely. I have no problem healing others but because I can't take a hit it's a big problem if I have aggro.

I love these spells for AoE grinding, too. The cooldown on Starfall is a bit of a pain but I have no problem healing my fellow boomkin while he's taking 15+ mobs. The long range makes it more exciting, I think. :P

Beefkin said...

The Starfall nerf really destroyed my combo atleast. I was playing with a disc priest and when i was playing against healer teams i just dont have the dps without starfall stun to actually kill anyone. Boomkin are the easiest for healers to cut of all dps while going LOS. So versus other healers we would just eventually go oom or get killed.

I really dont think Starfall was one of those spells that were random beyond all recognition. When i popped Starfall I was counting on both to get stunned, and casts interrupted for healers. I could have understood if starfire stun had been removed, because it is totally random. But I guess with all the non random stuff that is already is in the arena; hit rating, crits, procs, dodge, resists, trinkets that ress u 10% of the arena matches I guess starfall was the lord of random. Im my opinion the randomness of starfall was if ppl didnt get stunned.

Still a decent 1 point spell tho, that is until the rest of the world understand how easy you can counter it.

Anonymous said...

I'm not convinced that trash dps matters with starfall in raids -- the trash is going down one way or another, it is the bosses that have enrage timers and test your raid.... The dps loss from losing glyph of insect swarm (assuming you keep moonfire/starfire) is so drastic that I can't conceive why anyone would take the starfall glyph except to play with in heroics or pvp. W/t7 gear and glyph the insect swarm does nearly the same damage as moonfire (w/moonfire glyph) whereas starfall is worth an average of 2 wrath casts or slightly more on a raid boss.... (assuming avg crit etc.). so let's see... lose more than 3 or 4% of total dps by losing that glyph 30% insect swarm glyph(looking at some wow web stats), or lose 1% from not having starfall? yeah....

Loosely put though they are, the above are some of the reasons that starfall is purely novetly at the moment. When you compare it to some other skills learned through talent trees like Frost Strike for a frost DK (usually their #1 damage output on bosses), or living bomb for fire mages which is used constantly..... something that does hardly more damage than a regular spell cast, with a 3min cooldown, that costs a talent point (which could be spend elsewhere to get the dps increase starfall gives)..... is a waste

Sorcefire said...

To be honest I'm not as focused on squeezing every last ounce of DPS out of my balance spec, so SF is a pretty neat spell that let's me continue to AOE in highly mobile fights or fights with adds.

Another benefit is that during bosses who stun the group (mainly 5-man) having something continue to do damage is always a plus. IS is great as well, but you have to remember to refresh it to keep up the damage.